City Council is considering possible changes to rules that currently require licensed plumbers and electricians to do most kinds of plumbing and electrical work in the city – along with potential changes to protocols for inspecting such work.

At council’s most recent meeting, about 40 licensed tradesmen showed up to argue for the status quo, saying the current rules have worked for many generations and that they help prevent fires and bad workmanship.

In considering change, council is responding to complaints from contractors, real estate agents and homeowners that residential development – especially renovation and the flipping of houses – in the city is more difficult than in neighboring municipalities, which don’t license tradesmen.

“Something needs to be changed,” said Councilman Dave Ellis after the meeting. “We have to be more competitive” with those other municipalities, while also ensuring the maintenance of high standards – with inspection the ultimate backstop.

The city’s current policies are “the gold standard,” Interim City Manager Nate Kissell said after the meeting.

Those policies would seem to be right to keep for major projects like construction of schools, hospitals and large commercial buildings, Kissell said.

But it might make sense to loosen the policy a bit for residential construction to address the concerns of those who have complained, Kissell said.

Those potential changes could be seen in terms of scaling back licensing requirements, while scaling up the intensity and comprehensiveness inspection, he agreed.

Licensing requirements ensure that practitioners know the code and have a high incentive for quality work to protect their licensed status.

Licensing seems to police the work, even apart from inspection, he suggested.

But if licensing requirements are loosened, a more rigorous inspection regimen would presumably be needed to help ensure quality work continues when done by less experienced practitioners who aren’t as familiar with the code or with the typical electrical or plumbing infrastructure in older homes, according to Kissell.

Regardless, staff needs the tools to ensure that high safety and quality standards continue to be enforced, he said.

As it stands now, the city has an ongoing problem with work being done by contractors who don’t pull permits, according to a staff memo to council.

Changes in the requirements aren’t likely to eliminate that problem, according to the memo.

Licensed tradesmen frequently encounter shoddy, even dangerous work, done by such practitioners, the visiting tradesmen said.

That sort of shoddy work seems to be especially prevalent with renovations, where changes made inside walls can be hard to detect with inspections, said electrician Andy Mathers.

But if not having licensing requirements is OK for neighboring municipalities, why is it necessary for Altoona, Councilman Dave Butterbaugh asked rhetorically.

It’s not a “level playing field,” he said.

It could become a level playing field if the state required all electricians and plumbers to be licensed under the same requirements, some said.

That would be a desirable outcome, said contractor Lou Ventura.

Yet there is a special need for licensing and the additional safety it may provide because the houses are closer together, and fire can easily spread, some tradesmen said.

True, but many houses are equally close to one another in boroughs like Hollidaysburg and Tyrone, council members pointed out.

The primary reason for council to push licensing reform is to ensure that house flippers are enticed to do their work in the city, according to Councilman Ron Beatty.

That will help give momentum to council and the Redevelopment Authority’s push to rehabilitate homes before they get too blighted to save, in order to bolster the property tax base, said Councilman Ron Beatty.

Homes can be renovated more cheaply in neighboring municipalities because they don’t require licensing, so Altoona is at a disadvantage, Beatty and others said.

But that lack of licensing has its cost, according to the tradesmen.

Some of the residential wiring he’s encountered elsewhere is “a nightmare,” said electrician Herb Shelow.

“I’ve seen some pretty ugly stuff,” added electrician Joe Kawtoski.

That includes work for customers who were told their circuits had been rewired, when the alleged rewiring consisted of nothing more than 12-inch pigtails connected to electrical boxes, he said.

Some people are “after money and have no conscience,” Kawtoski said.

He’s also seen work done by individuals who apparently didn’t have “a clue” about code requirements, including wires run through holes close to the edge of studs without the protection of nail plates, he said.

In Pennsylvania, you need a license to be a barber, one tradesman said.

Hair will grow back soon enough, the tradesman said.

But the consequences of bad workmanship in the trades can be deadly, he said.

One tradesmen estimated that using licensed plumbers and electricians might add a couple thousand dollars to the cost of a home renovation.

He later seemed to concede that it might be as much as several times more than that.

But house flippers need to be able to do their work at a cost that allows them to sell at a price that buyers are willing to pay, Beatty said.

The lack of willing flippers is causing the city to lose its housing stock, Beatty said.

Flippers who do it right can still make a profit, said Bob Kutz, president of the Blair-Bedford Central Labor Council.

Houses have been rehabilitated in the city for 75 years, Kutz said.

“I can’t see why it can’t continue,” he said. “(There’s) money to be made the right way.”

Moreover, “good work is not cheap, and cheap work is not good,” said Mathers.

The city’s master license requirements call for both a defined period as an apprentice, a defined period as a journeyman and the passing of a master’s test.

There is a so-far little-used residential electrician’s license whose qualifications are less onerous.

That ought to be a sufficient concession, Kutz suggested.

If the city relaxes licensing requirements, an upgraded inspection regime will need to include the employment of inspectors who have the time and the willingness to discuss issues with tradesmen, according to electrician Herb Shelow.

The inspectors the city currently uses are so busy they don’t have time for such discussion, some said.

State law requires third-class cities like Altoona to license plumbers, but not electricians.

Altoona’s status as a home rule city doesn’t exempt it from the plumbing license requirement, according to a staff memo.

Nevertheless, there are third-class cities in the state that don’t license plumbers, according to a chart provided by staff.

Conversely, there are cities other than Altoona that also require licenses for electricians.

Ellis has been checking out how other cities similar to Altoona, especially York and Wilkes-Barre, handle the license and inspection issues.

Wilkes-Barre requires licenses for both plumbers and electricians, York only requires them for plumbers.

In 2019, after introducing the possibility of liberalizing the city’s licensing protocols, and after encountering similar resistance from local tradesmen, City Council adopted minor, compromise changes.

Those included a reduction in the number of hours required to work as an apprentice before taking a journeyman’s test and a reduction in the number of hours required to work as a journeyman before taking a master’s test, according to the handout.

More changes are needed to handle things “in a more efficient and effective way,” according to Ellis.

“There’s outside influence pressuring (council members) to change the laws,” Kutz said. “I think what we have now works. Why not let it continue working and keep people safe?”

“We’re trying to find out what we can do to make this thing more customer-friendly,” Ellis said. “(But with) the standards still in place to be safe.”

Having a discussion was worthwhile and it needs to continue, according to Beatty.

“We need to sit down and work out the details,” he said.

Mirror Staff Writer William Kibler is at 814-949-7038.