Officials blow whistle on police proposal
By William Kibler, bkibler@altoonamirror.comA state House bill that would charge municipalities lacking police departments $156 annually for each resident to cover the cost of state police protection is so unpopular, it may necessitate police protection at upcoming municipal meetings.
Virtually all the elected officials contacted by the Mirror from the mostly small townships and boroughs that would fall under proposal guidelines denounced it.
"It stinks," said Jim Grove, chairman of the board of supervisors in Frankstown Township, which - as the largest of eligible municipalities in the six-county Mirror coverage area - would owe $1.2 million under Lancaster Democratic Rep. Mike Sturla's bill.
"We would go broke in three to four years."
And Frankstown is one of the wealthiest of area municipalities.
"It sucks," said Jon Gallaher of Coalport Borough council in Clearfield County. "We don't have any money."
"Ridiculous," said Charlie Diehl, supervisor in Snyder Township. "Something like this would kill everything."
"Asinine," said Norma Pejack of Rainsburg Borough Council.
People in Rainsburg already are upset about loss of control represented by consolidation of their elementary school and economic problems caused by property reassessment and layoffs, she said. The Sturla proposal is a "laughable" further assault, she said.
Taxpayers all over the state already pay for state police through vehicle and driver license fees and liquid fuels taxes, officials said.
But municipalities that have their own departments essentially pay double, supporting two police services.
Sturla's bill seeks to ameliorate the imbalance.
But the bill would double some municipal budgets and multiply some property tax levies several times over.
In principle, asking municipalities that rely on state police to pay more "might not be a bad idea," Lester Wachob, president of supervisors in Brady Township, Clearfield County.
But the amount is "clear out of reason," he said.
The proposal would require a payment of $313,000 a year, the equivalent of 31 mills, almost five times the current levy.
The township's total budget is about $300,000.
"Somebody better put this back on the drawing board," he said. "This will never fly."
The township could set up and run a modest-size department of its own for less than a third of the money the proposal would demand, he said.
It's simply too much, especially with many municipalities struggling, said state Rep. Jerry Stern, R-Martinsburg.
It's especially unjustified in quiet townships like Huston, in his district, he said.
There aren't many serious crimes "out here in the sticks," said Russell Lewis, president of supervisors in Henderson Township, Huntingdon County.
When crimes occur, people tend to get caught, because "everybody knows everybody" and they aren't afraid to let the authorities know, he said.
Not only is the price high, but municipalities wouldn't get more than they're already getting, said Holly Fishel, research director of the Pennsylvania State Association of Township Supervisors.
Simply collecting the money in second-class townships would be a problem; code doesn't authorize a special property tax for police protection, she said.
But state Rep. Rick Geist, who represents two municipalities with their own departments - Altoona and Logan Township - favors the Sturla proposal.
"If people are getting a service, they should pay," he said.
It's only fair, he said.
Why should people who live in Altoona and Logan Township pay for their own departments, while also sharing the bill for Frankstown equally with Frankstown residents, he wondered.
Frankstown doesn't currently have a property tax.
Would the township even need to levy one if the bill passed?
"Hard to tell," Grove said. "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it."
The income generated by the Sturla bill would replace liquid-fuels tax income, which would benefit the state, because liquid fuels tax shouldn't be paying for state police answering a call to a burglary in Sylvan Hills, instead of patrolling the highways, Geist said.
Yet the current setup isn't as unfair as people claim, according to Fishel.
Municipalities without their own departments can rely on state police protection, but they don't get their local ordinances - including speeding ordinances - enforced, she said.
Conversely, municipalities that have their own departments get the benefit of state police services, including investigations, drug raid help and accident reconstruction, Fishel and others said.
Rather than punish municipalities for relying on state police, the state should make it easier for municipalities to create their own police departments, according to Fishel, who cited a 1999 task force study.
The state should allow municipalities to keep all their fines, providing low-interest loans and authorize specific police-tax levies, she said.
The Sturla proposal may be a disguised prod for municipalities to form regional police departments, according to Altoona Mayor Wayne Hippo.
Sharing services is sensible, because "We're all just one community," he said.
Yet many rural townships are so large that regionalization is impractical, because of the cost, especially when separated by mountain ridges, said William Griffith, president of supervisors in Boggs Township, Centre County.
Griffith actually wouldn't mind paying for state police service, he said.
"We have always gotten real good service from state police," he said.
But he's not sure how the township would pay for it, especially with five bridges that need to be redone, he said.
The prod to regionalization might work in Antis.
If the bill passes, the township would need to check into the possibility of joining an existing police department such as Tyrone or Bellwood, said Ray Amato, chairman of the supervisors.
That doesn't mean he likes the bill.
"It seems like the representatives and everybody are trying to throw everything on the taxpayer," he said.
Coalport, in Clearfield County, has investigated regionalization with neighboring municipalities but found it to be too expensive, said Joe Nevling, council president.
So is the $17,000 the Sturla proposal calls for its 490 residents to pay, he said.
So the borough has settled for protection from state police, which is satisfactory, with response to the rare major incidents within a half-hour, Nevling said.
Gregg Township, Centre County, Supervisor Douglas Bierly wonders whether the "Draconian" Sturla proposal - along with the threat to close state parks - is a tool to prod people to accept Gov. Ed Rendell's 16-percent income tax hike proposal.
Bierly would prefer to pay the income tax hike, because it's less painful than either of the alternatives, he said.
Setting aside the question of fairness, Antis Township Manager Jeff Ziegler wondered about equitability.
The charge is per capita, but there's great disparity between the wealth of municipalities, he said.
Chest Springs Borough in Cambria County is an economically deprived area with just 110 residents, many elderly, said Paul Eckenrode, president of borough council.
There are five streets and no hired employees. The borough rents a truck to plow, and a resident operates it for free.
Millage is 2.5; one mill generates $855, and paying the bill would mean adding 20 mills, he said. That's eight times the current levy.
"Impossible," he said.
In Henderson Township, finances are already tight, with two full-timers, property tax at 5 mills, 28 miles of unpaved roads and oil expensive to tar and chip them, Lewis said.
It would break the township to comply with the proposal, he said.
Some see the proposal as a dumping of responsibility.
"I can't help it if the state can't budget its money," said Robert Figard, supervisor in Broad Top Township in Bedford County.
"It's funny, but it isn't," Brady Township's Wachob said.
Rather than take money from local governments, higher-level governments should be feeding them money, as a kind of economic fertilizer, said Gary Frehn, chairman of supervisors in Shirley Township, Huntingdon County.
"[Government] is like a living plant," he said. "You trim it at the top and feed it at the bottom."
The Sturla bill will die on the House floor, Lewis predicted. "I'm praying that it does."
Mirror Staff Writer William Kibler is at 949-7038.
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jlaw65
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07-09-09 1:37 PM
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"REAL COPS" work do they turn and ask the PSP to come in and do the investigation??? I mean the PSP are slugs are they not?? Again, you have no clue what it is even to be a policeman so I dont know why I even bother.
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jlaw65
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07-09-09 1:35 PM
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Oh do tell blog how you would run the State Police. Please tell me. Unfortunately more often than not all police work is reactive. Not just State Police but ALL police depts. are more reactive than anything. There are some proactive things that can be done and we do do. What you believe there is no nbeed for traffic enforcement??? No need for speed enforcement?? And the construction zones?? You should just be able to whiz right through a construction zone at any speed you desire?? Don't be pissy because people get caught and have to pay a fine. Thats not my fault that is their fault for not obey and adhereing to the traffic laws. You have no clue first the amount of responsibilities that the State Police have. Oh and I guarantee every one of those "REAL COPS" as you call them if given a chance would be a State policeman in a heartbeat. And if they are so good please tell me why when a very serious incident takes place in one of these small town rural police depts. wherer you
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jlaw65
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07-08-09 11:30 PM
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Oh and hart get your facts straight. The State Police do not control who uses radar and who doesn't. That it ENTIRELY up to your legislatures. And if your husband wants to make more than he does as a cop then let him go apply to the State and go through the process like everyone else does. Dear God quit complaining about the difference in pay. Do I really have to explain why PSP gets paid more than a local cop does?? I can give you examples of city PDs that pay more than PSP. Oh my why is that?? That aint fair. DUH!
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jlaw65
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07-08-09 11:24 PM
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Yeah blog and you and any other person could have gotten off your a s s e s and applied yourself and done the things I have done to enhance my life for my family instead of sitting around complaining about what others get. Oh and remember one thing blog I pay taxes too and probably more than you. Oh and remember while you are sleeping in the comfort of your home I and others like me are out there putting our lives on the line for you. Something you will never have to do. Must be nice to sit on the sidelines never having to worry about sacrifice or having your family worry about you if some nut trys to do something to you. You want more pay get off your a s s and go do something about it instead of crying and complaining. Next time you see a cop State or local why don't you just walk up and say thanks.
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SCHart
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07-07-09 8:38 PM
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OR fight for the State Police to allow our local police to utilze Radar and other methods to make $ like the State does...Allow our township and borough cops to sit in Penn Dot trucks catching speeders and DUI's The state is nothing but GREED at it's finest I am married to one of the "small town cops" he barley makes over $9.00 per hour so why do we pay a state trooper $40k + to start... SHEETZ pays better then most small town cops make! Do not let the state fool you it is truely ALL about $$$$$$ money. AND for the LOVE of GOD give our K-9s back! that cost $6000 a lifetime and the average working life of a dog is 8-10 yrs
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SCHart
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07-07-09 8:32 PM
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GET K-9's back...they are cheaper partners!
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Greentea2
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07-07-09 6:32 PM
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What I don't get is we already pay for state police protection, why should we be charged again for it? They make it seem like they are doing something for nothing, isn't that what they are being paid for to begin with? Sturla is a complete Arse. Yes, the people in the cities are paying twice in a sense for their local police, but I look at it as I am paying for basic cable service and that is all I am getting service for. The city and town people are paying for a premium service just as premium cables service with 300 channels. The amount of work a policeman in the city does compared to what a State trooper in a rural area is night and day. The most I need to deal with is at graduation time kids like to smash our mailboxes. Do you think paying more for State police protection is going to stop that? Most of the calls the state police respond to are probably accidents that involve people from out of the area anyway. Come up with some new bogus fee like the CAT fund, that would be easie
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retiredarmy20years
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07-07-09 4:21 PM
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jlaw65 that is funny. I am mot trying to start a war between you and I however, there are two comments from your last entry that I know for a fact are totally wrong. Hope you figure out which two. That's all I am going to say on the matter. 99% of the time I like and agree with what you write. Sorry.
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jlaw65
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07-07-09 3:34 PM
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Blog as usual you are wrong and again have no real clue what goes on in the State Police. And let us remember this was a liberal democrat like you blog who introduced this bill.
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itsmee
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07-07-09 3:12 PM
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Rick, Love ya but once again you are wrong. There has got to be a better way to do this. Some folks cannot have their taxes raised anymore. How 'bout those on fixed incomes?
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RobSTS89
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07-07-09 11:38 AM
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I'm not sure who came up with the figure of $158 per resident, but that is a pretty accurate figure. If you look at Logan Township, they have about 13,000 residents and if you do the math, that comes out to $2,054,000 and if I am correct, I beleive Logan's police budget is just over 2 million dollars. Those municipalities in Blair Co. that have police departments are paying for their own police and paying for the State Police to answer calls in those municipalities (Frankstown Two) that do not have police departments. The voters in this area need to look into this, we help finance police protection for some of the well to do neighborhoods. Let you legislator know.
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MrBitters
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07-06-09 11:16 PM
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Why don't the State police just patrol these areas that are smart enough not to have a local taxpayer 24/7 police department and entrap and book those residents that are not wearing a seat belt? This would bring in big bucks for the State police with laws already on the books and prove how much police really care about our safety while driving ... But remember everyone, "motorcyclists" ride with no helmet yet all people in a vehicle must wear a seat belt. In our area the population has been declining by near 20,000 in 30yrs. How in the world did people here survive back then "without" all the 24/7 small town taxpayer police forces and a third less State police? We must all have lived in a state of dismal fear back then but never realized it. Were Taxed enough for State police already. This tax increase should be beaten back by local citizens to the creators of it and pounded in so hard that tax increases would appear to those that propose them as burdens
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pete22
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07-06-09 5:19 PM
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The problem is you have areas like Hempfield with over 40,000 residents that don't pay for police coverage. How fair is that to the rest of us that end up paying for it? If you need to balance the budget cut out the police department. It may force some of these municipalities to consolidate and do away with the web of confusion caused by all the local jurisdictions.
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donkeysrule
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07-06-09 3:19 PM
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Does all this mean that if you aree outside the area that you live and need the State Police that you have to pay for response? What if you have an accident in a Township where State Police protection is paid for by the citizens of that Township and you are from an area that has their own Police protection? This is a total waste of time and effort. We all pay already for Police protection. Why should some be asked to pay more?
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JimmysuperflySnuka
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07-06-09 2:42 PM
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Frankstown Median income per household $49,677, Altoona Median income per household $28,248.
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mocus1
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07-06-09 2:30 PM
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"Frankstown is one of the wealthiest of area municipalities".....what's "wealthy"? having more than one outhouse or one of those newfangled microwave ovens? I guess they're including the palatial mansions of the con artist defense attorneys who live in Scotch Valley.
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SoOvrObama
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07-06-09 2:23 PM
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I love that they want to hire more State Troopers but thanks to Rendell no state workers are even getting paid right now...Wow I didn't realize this was rocket science!
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KlausVR
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07-06-09 1:22 PM
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If you live in an area that does not provide municipal type police protection, you SHOULD be paying for it. Why should everybody's taxes be paying for the State Police to provide that coverage? Don't like it? Then hire your own police force.
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mykidsdad
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07-06-09 12:38 PM
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...stupid computer! ..should get a REFUND for the same amount per person since we don't need state police coverage. It should only make sense shouldn't it?
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mykidsdad
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07-06-09 12:37 PM
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Geist is an idiot. I live in an area that would not even be affected by this tax and I agree it is a bad idea. I suppose if you could follow these pinheads logic through to the other extreme, those of us who live in areas that are already covered by local police protection should get a REFUND
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brutis
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07-06-09 9:41 AM
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Rick Geist can eat chit, and does. remember, Geist was the goon who mandated registration for off road vehicles. He is always looking for a way to steal money for the sins of the legislator.
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brutis
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07-06-09 9:38 AM
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Another tactic to steal money.
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voiceofreason
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07-06-09 7:15 AM
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Explain to me how this would be enforced. And then tell me how they will say no when someone calls for help. Sorry ma'am your township didn't pay their bill we can't come and arrest your drunk husband for beating you up. And lastly, if they didn't cover those areas what would they do, sit at the beginning of construction site 24hrs a day. I mean really, with all of the police depts around here, the trooper would be on a constant vacation.
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