McCain, Obama get tough, personal in final debate
Associated PressArticle Photos
Fact Box
Who is Joe the Plumber?
COLUMBUS, Ohio - He is Joe Wurzelbacher, an Ohio man looking to buy a plumbing business who came to symbolize the notion of spreading the wealth in Wednesday night's third and final presidential debate between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain.
Earlier this week, when Wurzelbacher got a chance to speak with Obama during a campaign appearance in Toledo, he told Obama that his tax plan would keep him from buying the business that currently employs him.
Sensing an opportunity during the debate, McCain cited that exchange when the candidates were asked to explain why their economic plans are better than their opponent's. McCain said Obama's plan would stop entrepreneurs from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing.
"Joe wants to buy the business that he has been in for all of these years, worked 10, 12 hours a day. And he wanted to buy the business but he looked at your tax plan and he saw that he was going to pay much higher taxes," McCain challenged Obama.
"You were going to put him in a higher tax bracket which was going to increase his taxes, which was going to cause him not to be able to employ people, which Joe was trying to realize the American dream," McCain said.
McCain then looked directly into the television camera and said: "Joe, I want to tell you, I'll not only help you buy that business that you worked your whole life for and I'll keep your taxes low and I'll provide available and affordable health care for you and your employees. And I will not stand for a tax increase on small business income."
Obama denied that was true.
"Not only do 98 percent of small businesses make less than $250,000, but I also want to give them additional tax breaks, because they are the drivers of the economy," Obama said. "They produce the most jobs."
So what did Wurzelbacher (pronounced whur-zell-BAHK-er) think about becoming the center of the debate?
"It's pretty surreal, man, my name being mentioned in a presidential campaign," he said minutes after hearing McCain utter his name.
Wurzelbacher came up again when the debate turned to a discussion of health care policies. McCain charged that Obama's plan would fine the company Wurzelbacher wanted to buy; Obama said small businesses were exempt.
"Hey Joe, you're rich. Congratulations," McCain said mockingly.
Wurzelbacher said Obama's reaction left him feeling uneasy.
"I didn't think much of it the first time I heard it," Wurzelbacher said, adding that he still thinks Obama's plan would keep him from buying the business.
About McCain: "He's got it right as far as I go."
Even so, Wurzelbacher declined to say which candidate would get his vote on Nov. 4.
"That's for me and a button to know," he said.
HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. - John McCain assailed Barack Obama's character and campaign positions on taxes, abortion and more Wednesday night, hoping to transform their final presidential debate into a launching pad for a political comeback. "You didn't tell the American people the truth," he charged.
Unruffled, and ahead in the polls, Obama parried each accusation, and leveled a few of his own.
"One hundred percent, John, of your ads, 100 percent of them have been negative," Obama shot back in an uncommonly personal debate less than three weeks from Election Day.
"It's not true," McCain retorted.
"It absolutely is true," said Obama, seeking the last word.
McCain is currently running all negative ads, according to a study by the University of Wisconsin-Madison. But he has run a number of positive ads during the campaign.
The 90-minute encounter, at a round table at Hofstra University, was their third debate, and marked the beginning of a 20-day sprint to Election Day. Obama leads in the national polls and in surveys in many battleground states, an advantage built in the weeks since the nation stumbled into the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression.
With few exceptions, the campaign is being waged in states that voted Republican in 2004 - Virginia, Colorado, Iowa - and in many of them, Obama holds a lead in the polls.
McCain played the aggressor from the opening moments of the debate, accusing Obama of waging class warfare by seeking tax increases that would "spread the wealth around."
The Arizona senator also demanded to know the full extent of Obama's relationship with William Ayers, a 1960s-era terrorist and the Democrat's ties with ACORN, a liberal group accused of violating federal law as it seeks to register voters. And he insisted Obama disavow last week's remarks by Rep. John Lewis, a Democrat, who accused the Republican ticket of playing racial politics along the same lines as segregationists of the past.
Struggling to escape the political drag of an unpopular Republican incumbent, McCain also said, "Sen. Obama, I am not President Bush. ... You wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago."
Obama returned each volley, and brushed aside McCain's claim to full political independence.
"If I've occasionally mistaken your policies for George Bush's policies, it's because on the core economic issues that matter to the American people - on tax policy, on energy policy, on spending priorities - you have been a vigorous supporter of President Bush," he said.
McCain's allegation that Obama had not leveled with the public involved the Illinois senator's decision to forgo public financing for his campaign in favor of raising his own funds. As a result, he has far outraised McCain, although the difference has been somewhat neutralized by an advantage the Republican National Committee holds over the Democratic Party.
"He signed a piece of paper" earlier in the campaign pledging to accept federal financing, McCain said. He added that Obama's campaign has spent more money than any since Watergate, a reference to President Nixon's re-election, a campaign that later became synonymous with scandal.
Obama made no immediate response to McCain's assertion about having signed a pledge to accept federal campaign funds.
Asked about running mates, both presidential candidates said Democrat Joseph Biden was qualified to become president, although McCain added this qualifier: "in many respects."
McCain passed up a chance to say his own running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, was qualified to sit in the Oval Office, though he praised her performance as governor and noted her work on behalf of special needs children. The Palins have a son born earlier this year with Down Syndrome.
Obama sidestepped when asked about Palin's qualifications to serve as president, and he, too, praised her advocacy for special needs children.
But he quickly sought to turn the issue to his advantage by noting McCain favors a spending freeze on government programs.
"I do want to just point out that autism, for example, or other special needs will require some additional funding if we're going to get serious in terms of research. ... And if we have an across-the-board spending freeze, we're not going to be able to do it," he said.
In addition to differences on taxes and spending, McCain said Obama advocated trade policies that recalled those of Herbert Hoover, who presided over the start of the Great Depression.
Obama has called for tougher provisions in trade negotiations, arguing that is necessary to avoid undercutting the wages paid American workers.
McCain also said Obama has aligned himself with "the extreme aspect of the pro-abortion movement in America" and had voted present while in the Illinois Legislature on a measure to ban one type of procedure late in a woman's pregnancy.
Obama said the bill would have undermined Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruling that granted abortion rights, and had been opposed by the Illinois Medical Society.
"I am completely supportive of a ban on late-term abortions, partial-birth or otherwise, as long as there's an exception for the mother's health and life, and this did not contain that exception," he added.
McCain sarcastically paid tribute to "the eloquence of Senator Obama. He's (for) health for the mother. You know, that's been stretched by the pro-abortion movement in America to mean almost anything."
McCain's allegation about class warfare stemmed from one of Obama's campaign appearances last weekend.
In Ohio on Sunday, Obama was approached by a man who said, "Your new tax plan's going to tax me more."
A video clip caught by Fox News shows Obama replying, "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too. And I think that when we spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
McCain referred repeatedly to that voter, Joe Wurzelbacher, a plumber from Toledo, Ohio.
Wurzelbacher watched Wednesday night's debate and said he still thinks Obama's plan would keep him from buying the small business that employs him.
McCain's reference to Ayers reprised campaign commercials he has run to try and raise doubts about Obama's fitness to serve.
Ayers, who was a member of the violent Weather Underground in the 1960s, hosted a meet-the-candidate event for Obama in an Illinois race many years later.
"The fact that this has become such an important part of your campaign, Sen. McCain, says more about your campaign than it says about me," Obama replied.
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kilgore
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10-19-08 9:39 AM
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The New England Journal of Medicine on mcsame's health care plan h t tp://content.nejm.o r g/cgi/content/full/359/16/1645 good for insurance companies....bad for the citizens of America just more corporate welfare at the expense of Americans
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kilgore
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10-19-08 8:48 AM
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the official mcsame flip flop page: w w w.thecarpetbaggerreport.c o m/flipflops some low-lights 19. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it. 21. McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.) 23. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t. 39. McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them. 41. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first. 42. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spen
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kilgore
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10-19-08 8:36 AM
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retiredarmy20years you said"Collecting a welfare check each month (Nobama Economy Packet)..." i couldn't find anything near what you are claiming is obamas economic plan please help me find your source for this claim. or is it just an inflammatory, BS remark? ..not based on any facts at all? so i am to assume you are happy with the corporate welfare system? and trickle down economics? and the point we are at now from bush and his cronies failed domestic and foreign policies? i guess if you think all is fine and dandy..that our Country is on the right track....then vote for mcsame but if , like most Americans,..think things are seriously screwed up...vote for change..obama
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kilgore
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10-19-08 8:16 AM
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CharlieVarrick you said "Anyone with half a brain knows that I posted an article from the WSJ" i asked "exactly how was anyone to know where you copy/pasted from? " if anyone with 1/2 a brain would know...as you said..you should easily tell me exactly how i also asked you "and who penned that fear-mongering,BS laden, piece-o-crap?" if you were compelled to copy/paste a whole opinion piece..i would hope you would know the author you said "No one owes you or your kids anything." i agree...but THEY will owe the outrageous debt this admin is passing along..that is what i meant and lastly.. please explain exactly "what has happened in South Africa, it's on its way here" mcsame would be another 4 years of a failed bush admin failed domestic policies failed foreign policies my kid's kids can't afford four more years of bush (talkin' bout the deb there)
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TimmyH
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10-18-08 5:59 PM
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Michelle: your making things up again. You have no cause to believe Obama is looking out for middle class workers. All you have is his word, because his record, as short as it is, yields nothing but "present" votes, unless its another bill that would stop the baby bloodshed. Than he's Nobama.
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 11:41 AM
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There needs to be some serious investigations on this matter. Bill Clinton said "I think the responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president, to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 11:39 AM
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Both Frank and Moses assured the Wall Street Journal in 1992 that they took pains to avoid any conflicts of interest. Critics, however, remain skeptical. "It’s absolutely a conflict," said Dan Gainor, vice president of the Business & Media Institute. "He was voting on Fannie Mae at a time when he was involved with a Fannie Mae executive. How is that not germane? "If this had been his ex-wife and he was Republican, I would bet every penny I have - or at least what’s not in the stock market - that this would be considered germane," added Gainor, a T. Boone Pickens Fellow. "But everybody wants to avoid it because he’s gay. It’s the quintessential double standard."
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 11:38 AM
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So did Frank’s partner, a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions. Now that Fannie Mae is at the epicenter of a financial meltdown that threatens the U.S. economy, some are raising new questions about Frank's relationship with Herb Moses, who was Fannie’s assistant director for product initiatives. Moses worked at the government-sponsored enterprise from 1991 to 1998, while Frank was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie.
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 11:38 AM
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Maybe you didn't read my post before or maybe you choose to ignore it: In the 1990's, Barney Frank’s efforts to deregulate Fannie Mae may have been a serious conflict of interest because his lover, Herb Moses, was an executive for Fannie Mae at the time Frank's was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie Mae.
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 11:34 AM
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Yea right......tax the business's and see how many jobs there will be.
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Michele731
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10-18-08 11:23 AM
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And Retired, in case you missed it, Obama's main focus is jobs for people. But, that's okay you want to continue the loss of jobs that we have had the last 8 years. And, wages have gone down with the GOP in charge. Again, vote against your best interest middle class. Reward the GOP for this rotten mess we are in. The only socialism around is your dear Bush administration buying banks because he has ruined the financial fabric of this country just as he has ruined everything else
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Michele731
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10-18-08 11:20 AM
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Maybe if McCain would release his medical records, we would know his health status. Even without the four bouts of cancer, there is a one in three chance that Palin would end up beig president. Is that the person to lead this country?
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 10:41 AM
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Collecting a welfare check each month (Nobama Economy Packet) and laying around in bed or playing on a computer, IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ANYONE WEALTHY. To be wealthy one must first get a job.
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 10:39 AM
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Don't work hard, be lazy and lay around all day so others will pay your way. That's not my America! This is Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, China, Vietnam, Syria, Belarus, Sweden, Laos, Zambia and Turkmenistan. Other countries which might be considered Socialist, depending upon the interpretation of different factors, include Norway, Libya, Algeria, and Namibia. Yep, I really want that type of government in America. Sign me right up!
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 10:32 AM
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John Kennedy, who at 43 became the youngest person ever elected president, and who was always associated with "vig-ah," in fact had serious diseases that were kept from the public. As was revealed in 2002, Kennedy was sick from age 13 through the rest of his life, was on chronic-pain medication throughout his presidency and had Addison's disease, an endocrine disorder that until 1940 was a terminal illness. Kennedy survived it through cortisone injections, which at the time only rich people could afford. Dr. Jeffrey Kelman, who examined Kennedy's medical records in 2002, said, "He was never healthy. I mean, the image you get of vigor and progressive health wasn't true."
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retiredarmy20years
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10-18-08 10:30 AM
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Stess? Maybe I am missing something but it appears that McCain is moving around quite fast and in a lot of places for being an "old man". He hiked the Grand Canyon rim-to-rim last August with his son, Jack. It took them three days. mmmm, when was the last time anyone here even took a walk????
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Michele731
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10-18-08 10:23 AM
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Let's see--erratic old guy who has lost his soul in trying to win in order to carry on the GOP promise to the wealthy (let's not forget who will be president when he keels over in the first term from stress) or an intelligent person who is looking out for the middle class.
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CharlieVarrick
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10-18-08 8:39 AM
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Kilgore, you need to get your head out of the Daily Kos and start reading some real news like the WSJ or Investors Business Daily. Open your horizons. Stop with the class warfare already. No one owes you or your kids anything. By the time my son graduates from college he'll be $60K in debt. Why don't the tax payers pay this? Why should his Mother and I pay? Obama still hasn't a record of achievement yet. When you find something let me know. Just look at what has happened in South Africa, it's on its way here. Can't wait.
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kilgore
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10-18-08 7:39 AM
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CharlieVarrick all you had to do was post a link or credit...don't get your panties all in a bunch also, posting the link allows others to go view the opinion piece themselves..instead of flooding a board as you did lets see..what did a neo-con super majority do to our Country? do i even need to list the disasters? mcsame would be another 4 years of a failed bush admikn failed domestic policies failed foreign policies my kid's kids can't afford four more years of bush exactly how was anyone to know where you copy/pasted from? and who penned that fear-mongering,BS laden, piece-o-crap?
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retiredarmy20years
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10-17-08 10:25 PM
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pajamasmedia.c om/blog/obama-supporter-assaults-female-mccain-volunteer-in-new-york/ Obama Supporter Assaults Female McCain Volunteer in New York While the Democrat-leaning media continues to scare undecided voters with bedtime stories about some mythical angry McCain supporter whom nobody has seen, here is a real district attorney’s complaint documenting an unprovoked assault by an enraged Democrat against a McCain volunteer in midtown Manhattan: “Defendant grabbed the sign [informant] was holding, broke the wood stick that was attached to it, and then struck informant in informant’s face thereby causing informant to sustain redness, swelling, and bruising to informant’s face and further causing informant to sustain substantial pain.”
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retiredarmy20years
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10-17-08 10:19 PM
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FROM ASSOCIATED PRESS MADISON, Wis. — The Racine school district’s use of an eighth grade textbook that includes a chapter on Democrat Barack Obama but nothing on his opponent John McCain.
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mammamia
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10-17-08 9:09 PM
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Universal- of or pertaining to all, or the whole. Why shouldn't all of Hawaii's children deserve "universal" health care.
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mammamia
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10-17-08 9:00 PM
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sorry, try this instead- Google- Hawaii ends universal child health care
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Michele731
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10-17-08 8:51 PM
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Wow I hate to tell all of you McCain supporters but John McCain could care less about all of you. All his policies favor the rich. So, if he wins, I hope the trickle down makes you happy.
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mammamia
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10-17-08 8:29 PM
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read- Hawaii ending universal child health care.
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