A clouded issue
State’s new smoking ban confuses private clubsBy Greg Bock, gbock@altoonamirror.com and David Hurst, dhurst@altoonamirror.com
Article Photos
Fact Box
To learn more
To help clubs, restaurant and taverns sort out the new law, the Blair Respiratory Disease Society is holding a informational session at 10 a.m. Monday at the Blair County Convention Center. The event is free and open to the public.
The state Department of Health has added new information to its Web site, www.health.state.pa.us, and will field calls on its hotline, 1-877-835-9535, through Sept. 11.
With a statewide smoking ban a week away, area clubs are finding that their status under the new law isn't as clear-cut as expected.
Can the club allow smoking during the week for members only but have to go smoke-free on weekends, when it rents the banquet hall out to nonmembers?
And does it matter if a club has separate ventilation systems for its banquet and bar areas?
If a club allows members to sign in guests, does that mean they lose their exemption?
The subject has club stewards scrambling to get answers as members must vote whether their clubs will go smoke-free before Sept. 11.
''The way I understand it, the only people who are allowed to come in are card members if it's smoking,'' said Cheri Rupert, manager at the Elks Lodge in Tyrone.
Rupert said she wasn't aware of the small details in the law that make it less desirable for clubs to stay smoker-friendly.
She contacted the state Department of Health for clarification, and the state would meet this week to make a decision.
''The state put the clubs in a position where they have to have non-smoking, or we wouldn't be able to have bingos or, say, a wedding or a birthday party,'' said Rob Rogers, commander at Anderson-Denny Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 4559 in Tyrone.
''When the law first started, we didn't think it would apply [to private clubs],'' said Rogers, adding that the post voted Tuesday night to go smoke-free rather than forfeit its pool league, dart league and motorcycle ride - things open to the general public.
It also would mean the post wouldn't be able to continue to bring Hollidaysburg Veterans Home residents down to spend the day.
Rogers said he foresees the ban curtailing how much time people spend at the post.
''We know we're going to lose business somewhere,'' Rogers said. ''If people come, they'll probably not have two or three beers, but probably just one because they can't smoke, and people like to smoke when they drink. If they come in for a football game, maybe they'll only stay for one or two quarters.''
In Ebensburg, American Legion Post 363 board member Bill Harker talked to fellow legions, other clubs and the group's attorney, but he still is scratching his head.
Earlier this week, the post on West High Street hung a sign reading, ''No Smoking, effective Sept. 10.''
''To be on the safe side, the sign is up,'' he said. ''For now, it's no smoking, but we're still looking into it.''
Harker, until recently the Ebensburg Legion's commander and a member of Garfield Thomas Jr. VFW Post 4963 in Ebensburg, said the VFW is planning to do the same.
''It seems like a bunch of double talk,'' he said. "To tell you the truth, I don't think anyone knows what the law is [pertaining to membership clubs]. One way you read it, we can smoke, the other way - you can't.''
Machel Drahnak, tobacco program coordinator for Blair County's Human Services office, admitted that the law is confusing.
''It goes back to all those exemptions,'' Drahnak said.
To be exempt also requires more than just a vote among the membership. It also requires sending proof of that vote to the state in the form of an application for exemption. With the deadline looming, Drahnak said establishments with applications already submitted to the state but not approved still can allow smoking.
According to the state Department of Health, clubs may be jumping to conclusions about the limits of the exemptions.
Spokesman Holly Senior said if a club votes to allow smoking, it can still allow guests.
''If you are a smoking establishment, you can continue to allow guests in clubs as long as you are following your own bylaws,'' Senior said.
What wouldn't be allowed is renting out one part to the public and not allowing smoking but allowing smoking in another part of the building. Senior said if a club is renting its banquet hall, its members-only area also must go smoke-free for that day.
Senior said the wording of the law has made implementing it a challenge.
''Obviously, we realize this is an education process and realize it will take time,'' Senior said.
Still, with the restrictions comes opportunities.
''I don't believe we get the smoking ban,'' said Don Wike of the United Veterans Association on Union Avenue.
As a private club, the UVA also meets the criteria as a drinking establishment because it doesn't have more than 20 percent of its daily sales in food.
Wike said the club will remain a smoking establishment, and with the ban, people likely will be looking for places where they can smoke.
''This would probably be the best time to keep it going,'' he said.
Mirror Staff Writer Greg Bock is at 946-7446. Mirror Staff Writer David Hurst is at 946-7457.
|
lambs1
|
|
|---|---|
|
09-08-08 8:47 AM
|
I can't wait until they pass a law that if you tip the scales they can't serve you food. Fat people repulse me far more than a smoker.
|
|
homerbeep
|
|
|
09-08-08 3:57 AM
|
I can see this issue from both sides. I smoked for 18 years before I quit cold turkey in 1996. It was the toughest thing I ever did! But you have to WANT to quit and that very obviously is up to the individual.
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 10:58 PM
|
What do you care what I want? All you non-smokers got what you wanted in a law being passed against smoking in public at the expense of me having my right taken away to be able to do what I want, when I want. When I was in a public place when smoking was still allowed, I used discretion where I lit up. If I was around a lot of people who didn't smoke, I always showed consideration and held off until I was in a place where I was able to. Maybe this law is for those smokers who don't show this kind of consideration. I suppose it would be considered asking for special rights since it appears that I'm the evil one here for desiring to smoke. So to end this, I'll be expecting to see all you non-smokers dancing in the streets with the weight of the world taken off your shoulders! Hoo-frikkin-ray for you all!
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-05-08 8:37 PM
|
If that was your original point why didn't you just say it rather than sarcastically and immaturely attack those who opposed your view? That seems to be a popular method of not making points by republicans anymore, haha. Anyway, What do you want? You've admitted it's addictive, a waste of money, unhealthy, and so on - There is nothing good about cigarettes. . . So, should we glorify it? Award smoker's with special rights, rights that impose on the rest of us who value our health?
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 3:45 PM
|
Maybe so, but then again that's my business now isn't it? The only thing I'm "crying" about is that no matter who you are, or what you are, or how powerful a person is, or whatever, if you smoke you're deemed nothing better than a troll and a menace to society, and a third rate person. And that's just simply WRONG! Hurry! Develop laws against this creature! Banish them to the netherworld! This has been my whole point the whole time here.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-05-08 3:26 PM
|
As for your sad tale of addiction - Man up. Seriously, most things in life are easier said than done! If people only ever did what was easy nothing would ever be accomplished (Be it dropping an addiction, getting through college, or whatever). So, who's the one crying now? You, my good sir, you! Stop making excuses, complaining, saying it can't be done, and having that attitude. If you ACTUALLY wanted to quit you could. . . .Maybe you're just incapable of putting forth the grit and tenacity necessary to overcome your crutches.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-05-08 3:24 PM
|
Despite your credentials you still seem to have lacked the common sense necessary to have not picked up a habit such a smoking, sir. You really love these names like babies, cry babies, and so on and so forth. . . Does using these terms make you feel strong? Are you that insecure? Are these weak insults to compensate for something? Like say a valid point or perhaps the ability to show and admit to a weakness such as being wrong about something? I see you starting to bend, Raz, you're now admitting it's addicting, financially irresponsible, and must also realize it is somewhat unhealthy for you to say you wish you could quit!
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 1:50 PM
|
And you know what Einstein? You as an obvious non-smoker, as well as the other hoard of babies wanting their pablum out there, have no idea what it's like to be addicted to smoking. I'll admit it I am, and have tried to stop many times, but the simple fact remains is that I enjoy smoking. Sure, I would like to quit, and maybe save a lot of $$$ in the process, but it is way easier to say you will quit than to try and do it. It is extremely tough, and nobody really knows than a person who has done it. And I don't want to hear all you do-gooders saying "Try this program, try that program, seek counseling, put on the patch, chew this gum, etc.,etc. Stopping cold turkey is the only way that works. Oh, and by the by Mr. Genius, I happen to have a great job, am a Veteran, and have a College Degree.
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 1:33 PM
|
I may as well talk to the wall. Maybe it will get the point I was trying to make since it would have more intelligence.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-05-08 12:38 PM
|
Smoking is a weakness. It amazes me that so many people in this area still practice this dirty habit but then again this area's population is pretty much composed of substance abusers, white trash, poorly educated, and so on. . . Smoking is a crutch - It's a shield - It's an accessory. People smoke for plenty of reasons and none of them are good. Look in the mirror, think about why you do, and you will probably be disgusted with yourelf . . . or should be.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-05-08 12:34 PM
|
And there have actually been accounts of bar tenders, waitresses, and the like developing lung cancer and heart conditions after years of working in smoke filled atmospheres. You call us cry babies, which is so mature, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? You're on here as much as us "crying" about your rights, WAH, my right! WAHH I want black lungs and you should be subjected to my second hand smoke because I HAVE RIGHTS WAH
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-05-08 12:32 PM
|
The EPA states that is a known fact SHS may cause cancer - It contains chemicals such as formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen - Thousands of deaths yearly - The list of affects goes on and on. . .You cling to your ******** denial-based rhetoric because you can't actually prove to us or show us any facts that counter our theories that second hand smoke is in fact harmful. I don't know how they do the studies but they do - I'd bet my life that they don't just make this*****up to*****off average joes like yourself.
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 12:21 PM
|
Another thing: When was the last time anybody has truly ever heard of an individual that has been determined without a doubt to have died SOLELY from inhaling secondhand smoke?
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 12:13 PM
|
Nonsense. It's a known fact that smoking MAY cause health problems. Everybody knows that. But tell me where there is a study that proves 100% hands down that secondhand smoke causes cancer. There isn't one. How would a laboratory be able to determine this anyway? Do they follow a non-smoking person around for X number of years and have them hang around a smoker just to see if they get cancer? The scientists conducting this would have to monitor that person 24/7. If they inhaled that much secondhand smoke to get cancer, then they probably are a smoker themselves, thereby making that study null and void. This study was all designed by non-smokers, that have told other non-smokers because this is what they want to hear. There are people that believe anything that you tell them if they like it enough.
|
|
samgoldy
|
|
|
09-05-08 11:32 AM
|
God this is so obvious. 2nd hand smoke kills- FACT. Studies have shown that non smokers exposed to 2nd hand smoke will have some effects from smokers. State after State are regulating public smoking- NONE OF them have banned smoking in private places. Stop being so stubborn and realize that our society is recognizing the ill effects of smoking and trying to curtail the effects it has on us who do not smoke. I am looking forward to having a beer in a bar and not coming out smelling like a chimney.
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-05-08 12:08 AM
|
All of which leads me to this: All of you bawlbabies are screaming "My rights this!" and "My rights that!" Well okay, you got your blessed wish for no smoking in any public places, Hur-frikkin-rah for you. But what about MY rights? Don't I get any? I am a normal working guy, good to get along with and everything, but just because I smoke cigarettes, I'm looked down upon as a third class citizen, one of the dregs of society. Isn't that a form of prejudice?
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-04-08 11:59 PM
|
Because I want to. Simple as that. I am not a heavy smoker by any means (a pack every 2 days or so), and during the day I sometimes go hours without smoking. My whole point is that I feel there's no need for a law to tell me where and when to smoke just because a group of non-smokers don't like it. I imagine the same crybaby group of non-smokers are the ones responsible for coming up with the nonsense bollocks that secondhand smoke causes cancer too.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-04-08 10:45 PM
|
Nah dude. . . You're the one with bats in the belfry, coming on here claiming people should be able to do what they*****well please - I only exaggerated to blow up my point that, well, your point was idiotic, haha. I don't like smoke for many reasons - But if you want to smoke, go ahead. . . But no one should have to deal with second smoke, the unhealthy and annoying bi product of someone else's filthy habit. Raz, can you tell me this; Why do you smoke?
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-04-08 10:40 PM
|
What's smoking have to do with school buses and fecal matter? I think you got some bats in your belfry there dude...
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-04-08 10:18 PM
|
Yeah, you should be able to do what you want, when you want, where you want . . . We all should . . ANARCHY ANARCHY ANARCHY. . .Yeah dude, Yeah TOUGH GUY, you're totally right here! We should all be able to do whatever we want! We should be able to do naked jumping jacks on our rooftops and throw fecal matter at school buses . . . We should have no laws at all. . . YEAH! Damn, dude - - - You're just soooooo tough
|
|
RazMnaz
|
|
|
09-04-08 10:07 PM
|
I hate the smell! I hate cigarettes! I hate this! I hate that! Boo Hoo Hoo! Boo Hoo Hoo! I hope all of you bawlbabies are happy! This isn't a free country anymore as far as I'm concerned. I should be ABLE to do what I want, when I want, and if that means lighting up a cigarette in a bar when I'm having a beer, then I'm gonna do it! As Sharon Stone said, "What are you gonna do, arrest me for smoking?" All of you crybabies need not respond, because I have no desire to hear it.
|
|
o0gone0o
|
|
|
09-04-08 4:03 PM
|
I hope one day we go completely smoke free. I hate the smell, I hate breathing that crap in. You would think I would be use to it having grown up around 2nd hand smoke but nope still bothers me.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-04-08 3:23 PM
|
People should not have to avoid any business because of smokers, that is ludicrous! Even bars, for that matter, should abide by these standards. Bars can serve as great social settings but if you don't want to drink - You are not subjected to second hand alcoholism! People should not have to face second hand smoke! You say you don't need to shove your opinions down other's throats BUT what about non-smokers who get the opinions of smoker's forced down their trachea and into their lungs while trying to eat out or meet some friends at a bar?
|
|
Ladycardoc
|
|
|
09-04-08 2:24 PM
|
What's next? Banning smoking in our own homes? What gives anyone the right to tell a person how to operate their business. I was a smoker for 20 years. I quit 4 years ago, but I don't feel the need to force my opinions, on smoking, down other peoples' throats. If you don't like being around smokers, don't patronize that business.
|
|
TruthJuice
|
|
|
09-04-08 12:53 PM
|
If you smoke - Non smokers actually do know what's better for you than you do! Not smoking! But that isn't what it's all about. . . It isn't to prevent you from smoking per say it is to prevent others from being subjected to second hand smoke.
|